Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I was thinking of getting a Smith & Wesson Military and Police 9mm... This is what they are issuing the Iraqi army with. It was either this or a glock.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...9000_large.jpg

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...egory_rn=15711

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I'm in the same boat (looking to get another 9mm tomorrow).

I'm leaning towards a Glock 19 (although I've never shot a glock, so I figure the trigger might take some getting used to).

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

You also may want to check out the Springfield Armory XD or XDm series.

I have the XD9 Tactical. I love it and the folks here who own them seem to like them as well.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Yeah I have never even held a glock to be honest. I am looking for small and compact since I will be carrying this on me when I go out when i get my concealed carry permit.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I'm a new Glock 17 shooter, and I must say I really like the trigger now that I have figured it out. Take up the slack until it doesn't want to give any more, then if you squeeze any further she goes boom. Simple and easy to get used to. JM2c.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Well, hey! If it's good enough for our fraternal Iraqi brethren, it's certainly good enough for me.:sarcasm: Almost. More or less. Then again, maybe not.

I've never handled a S&W M&P pistol, but it looks pretty nice. Complete with "tactical" light/accessory/bayonet mounting rails on the front of the frame & all, plus the beavertail grip..

How does the price of the pistol itself compare to a Glock 17/19?

You should probably go with whatever pistol seems to fit your hand the best. I'd probably go for a Glock 17 or 19 (a 19 would be more concealable). Glock mags run ~$25 from CDNN, while the S&W mags seems to run ~$35-$40 from some Googling. Figure on buying 6-10 mags for your pistol, so the cost difference may add up.

Parts for Glock pistols are easily available online....I'm not sure about parts availability for the S&W M&P pistol.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

i have the smith and havent had any issues with it....worked with a glock and the smith before buying...smith just felt right. shot well and fit like a glove in my hand...so thats what i went with....they offer alot of free magazine deals with the mp purchase..so look around a lil. i got 2 mags and a $50 rebate with mine. check out mp-pistol.com or mppistol.com something like that for strictly MP talk. i would compare side by side and go with whatever feels good...both are quality guns. ill be adding a mp9mm compact at some point.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

There's a universe of BS we could get into here, but the first thing on my mind is "Got kids?" ...... Gonna have kids?
NOT a safety lecture. Not inviting one, nor a debate.
A bedside Glock with a 2-7 ish year old in the house isn't my first choice. Invariably the carry gun is the bedside gun....unless you're like this guy I know.....
I'd opt for something with at least a manual safety-not 'cuz we're tarded, but it's another layer of safety with an eye towards young hands.
No youngsters? DEFINITELY.....a GE minigun. Don't half step, Mocha.....

If I was buying new, I'd check an XD. Used? Whatever you decide. Preshop for mags BEFORE you buy any pistola.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

dont get the full size (4.25 inch i think) go with the mp9c which is the compact...its alot smaller and would conceal better then the full size.....full size is doable but the compact is designed to be carried

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Caliber is too small.

If the caliber that your weapon that you are putting your life on the line with DOES NOT START WITH AT LEAST A THREE, you are wasting your time.

There are MANY choices out there. Plus, EVERYONE shoots 9mm and ammo is VERY DIFFICULT AND EXPENSIVE to find.

Go with a .357 sig or a .40 caliber. You won't be disappointed. The bad guys WILL BE, but you will not be.

just sayin...

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

A recent phenominum. Usually the cheapest and most plentiful ammo available. Can't go wrong with a 9 or a 45. For a concealed carry gun the 9 is your best bet. :ok:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

thats a load of crap. 9mm is EASIER to find right now then .45 (atleast in arizona) though .40S&W seems plentiful. also 9mm is CHEAPER then .40 or .45. I have bought over 2000 rounds in the past month of 9mm and I got it ALL at wal-mart and haven't paid more then $0.20/round (100/rnd boxes Winchester $19.95). They don't have it every time, but they have it enough and if you're willing to call ahead and ask if they have any you won't waste time when they dont.

9mm is one of the most popular calibers on the planet and in a STHF scenario you want something popular so you can be sure to always find some ammo.

Everyone has their reasons why they like 9mm or why they don't and its as big of a split as chocolate vs. vanilla but a 9mm is a good choice some will say.

btw. I have a glock 17 but I think I'm going to be buying an XD9 or a S&W M&P once I get an oppurtunity to shoot them side by side at the range

Big Country

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

This is true. 9mm is much easier to find than .45 around here as well. Many places I go that have some ammo usualy have quite a bit of .40S&W.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 9MM. I own multiple calibers and I feel confident if I need to use my 9MM it will do the job.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I recently went to a class. The instructor was looking at everyone's guns. The little lady with the Springfield Arms had a 9 mm. Immediately the instructor told her that it was a good gun, but she had to clean it every time she used it because they will get picky if dirty. WHen he looked at my glock 19 he said you can throw that gun in the mud and it would still fire! Might be something to think about.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

beretta 92fs. flawless.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Wow, you really thought that was a smart little observation about caliber size. Too bad you are too dumb to figure out metric to English conversions. Let me help you out.

1 millimeter = 0.0393700787 inches

so, 9 millimeters is guess what 9 x 0.03937...

for a grand total of: 0.354330709 inches.

Next time think before your type and keep your unfounded opinions and observations to yourself.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Agreed. When I was in the market for a pistol, there weren't any 92's to be had. Has the supply increased recently, anyone know?

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

AND FRIGGIN HEAVY...

If you're gonna have a sidearm that heavy - might as well up the hole size.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

If you're 'economy' minded, check out the Bersa Thunder .45 Ultra Compact. THe same gun also comes in 9mm. Parts arent hard to get, though mags can be at times(and expensive at times as well, 35-50$ avg).

Its a fantastic gun, I carry mine with me and know quite a few others that do as well.

They also make the bersa thunder .380 CC[concealed/carry] model, but Im not particularly a big fan of the .380 round.

Just something else to think about. great, simple, efficient, RELIABLE, inexpensive gun that goes bang everytime and drives tacks with the best of em!

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

The M&P is a good gun. My friend loves his. Glocks are good too. I love my CZ's the most though. Nothing wrong with polymer frames, but you can't dress them up with nice grips like you can with a metal frame.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I suggest you go to the range and rent a M&P, Glock, Beretta, SR9, etc. and shoot each one before spending hundreds of dollars on a pistol. The simple answer of "get a Glock" doesn't work. One size fits all isn't true in the handgun world.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I have the Smith And Wesson M&P in .40 calibur. It's a good gun. Feeds well. I've been through a few boxes so far and no FTF or FTE. The takedown and cleaning is very easy. It comes with small, medium, and large grip replacements. I read somewhere that they had over a quarter of a million dollars worth of research into the human hand.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

yeah im gonna have to differ with the ammo shopping as well...9 is the easiest to find and cheapest out of most standard handgun ammo. i think the 9 caliber is a good entry level handgun...

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

SG & T,

Actually I DO KNOW MY MATH. With a degree in computers AND a degree in GUNSMITHING plus an NRA certified firearms instructor, I know FOR A FACT that 9mm is not as good a MANY OTHER LARGER calibers. That lesson has been learned over in the sand. AND IN MIAMI, just in case you are TOO UNOBSERVANT to know.

9mm WILL NOT DO IT. Never has. Never will. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

You wonder what caliber our Spec For guys carry? The ones who range far afield and have no artillery/armor/air support?

IT AIN'T 9mm.

STUFF YOURSELF SG. :36_1_30:

When you have the knowledge THAT I HAVE and the CONTACTS THAT I HAVE, then you get to spout off. Otherwise you are a pitiful excuse for a gun owner.

And a GOOD ENTRY LEVEL WEAPON is a .357 MAGNUM. Because you can START with .38 spls and THEN STEP UP TO .357 Mag. Can't do that with 9mm.

I went to FIVE LARGE SPORTING GOODS STORES ON MONDAY. Two Gander Mtn, two Sportsman Warehouse and a Bass Pro shop here in Denver. Plus I stopped by and visited a gunsmithing buddy of mine who owns his own shop and spends every morning for two hours calling everyone trying to get ammo. NOT MUCH LUCK THERE EITHER.

NO 9mm. No reloading supplies for 9mm. My friend that went with me bought the last 500 empty cases for 12 gauge in 2 3/4 even though he wanted 3 1/2 - sorry all out. No reloading supplies of almost ANY caliber. But there WAS some .40 left. I think I even saw a box of .454 Casull. BUT 9MM? NONE TO BE HAD. FOR ANY PRICE.

Aim doesn't even currently LIST 9mm. Ammoman lists it but doesn't HAVE ANY. Stick to what you know. CAUSE THAT SURE AS HELL AIN'T FIREARMS AND WHAT'S CURRENTLY AVAILABLE TO THE GUN CULTURE.

While a year or two ago, availability might have been what you said, THAT IS NO LONGER TRUE.

I kinda doubt that mocha is going to be reloading any time soon as well. Besides, he would have to get reloading supplies, of which there are none.

I stand by what I said. If the caliber you are shooting is not AT LEAST a three, you are wasting your time.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

It's true, a 9mm has never killed anybody.

Google it.






.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Funny, I distinctly remembering you posting statements that refute this. My engineering degree and decade of experience actually does qualify me to comment on unit systems and physics. Topics which you clearly have no knowledge of. But lets not turn this in to a pissing contest.

For the last time 9mm = 0.354 in. What about that is so hard to grasp? If you really are a gunsmith you should know how to convert metric to English and vice versa.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

and your defense of 9mm being expensive?

9's are still easily found around here but it doesnt differ area by area so maybe your area is having some supply issues...i dont know im not there

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Wow, T.

Denial is APPARENTLY A RIVER NEAR YOU.

9MM is absolutely NOT available in almost every part of this country. Being that SO MANY PEOPLE such as yourself constantly spouting how great a round it is, MANY PEOPLE, including LEO's use 9mm.

Don't get all hyper about the LEO using 9mm. That's just because so many cities picked 9mm because it WAS cheaper. These days, not so much. Even LEO departments are having problems getting this round.

Ammo ON ALL LEVELS has doubled in price in the past year. Some has doubled AGAIN in the past six months. ESPECIALLY THE 9MM.

You are suggesting that mocha go towards a caliber that is SO POPULAR that you cannot find any kind of quantity for a person to protect themselves. You are suggesting a caliber that has CONSISTENTLY been proven to be problematic as a man stopper. Even heavy clothing can and has stopped 9mm without causing ANY damage to the person being shot.

You want proof? Here is a guy who is ONLY wearing a vest. Even this vest stopped the 9mm.


THIS GUY IS A MORON. He proves it in this video. But he also PROVES that a 9mm is definitely NOT the round you want to shoot someone with. While it may hurt like hell, it won't drop them, unless you are VERY GOOD at marksmanship. Say, like Marcus Luttrell, a Navy Seal.

Which any person who is purchasing a firearm for the first time probably will not be. And given the shortages of this ammo, won't have much of a chance to become one.

Again, the 9mm is a VERY POOR CHOICE. Especially in todays gun culture.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I regularly shoot 300-500 rounds out of my xd9 tactical (two of them actually) in one sitting, and have had zero firing issues except for a bad batch of ammo I got which produced a significant number of failures to extract. The longest between cleanings I've gone is probably in the neighborhood of 700 rounds.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Wallew, if someone can't solve a problem with 15 or 17 rounds of 9mm, you really think they can with 7 or 8 rounds of 45?


:dontknow:

.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

You base your assessment on 9mm with a video of a guy shooting a Kevlar vest with a 9mm? We have no idea what round they were shooting in that pistol. I'm sure it was not a +P or +P+.


Is a larger caliber going to do more damage? Sure it will. But not everyone wants a mini hand cannon. Some people are just fine with shooting a 9mm and IT WILL DO THE JOB.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Thanks all for the info. That guy in the video is an idiot. So is the guy pulling the trigger. Screwing with guns like that is not funny and both should be locked up down at the looney bin.

Saturday I am going to make my final decision. My caliber is 9 though. I normally shoot shotguns and hunting rifles so this is a bit new to me.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Don't need no stinkin 9... The .357 mag is my wife's gun.

Mine? Like I said, don't need no stinkin 9...

Twenty rounds out this is MORE than enough to resolve most problems. If not, then slap in a 75 round drum...

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1239332134

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I'll 2nd that. The Bersa .45 is a nice compact shooter and comes in 9mm that looks almost identical. I've gotten several hundred rounds through my.45 with no FTF's. Accuracy is great and the safety features rival those found on much more expensive firearms. If you get one, make sure the spring assembly also has an inner spring (two springs interconnected) on the .45 (updated version) or it may not cycle properly. The 9mm is reliable enough for the Argentine police as their service weapon.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Mocha,

Take this Glock 21 torture test into consideration, just to give you an idea of how reliable a Glock is.

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php...ask=view&id=90

I own a Glock 17, Fiance owns a Glock 26. Love em both :-)

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I have the M&P 9m Compact and can't say enough great things about it. It comes with 2 x 12 round mags and I got the special rebate for 2 more 12 rd mags....I keep one in the pipe, so I have 13 ready to go, with a spare mag of 12 on me, with the other 2 mags in close proximity.....It's just a tad smaller in most dimensions than the full size. I got it for Conceal purposes. Thinner than most and smaller in areas for concealment than other brands. Nothing against them, just happened to like this, and especially the way it felt in my hand......

https://www.lipseys.com/eImages/M&P9c_1.jpg

It is however the first pistol that I have ever owned, so not much to compare it to, but right out of the box, I shot 100 rounds and had a grouping all in side a 3" circle at distances of 3, 5 and 7 yards.....

Same results when I took my Conceal Carry class, and some events were against the clock and one was even left handed. (I'm a righty)

Simply put....I LOVE this gun, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend.

Good luck in your selection,
RK

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Spend the extra money and get the G19. You absolutely will not be disappointed.

17 rounds of 9mm will solve any problem that a handgun can solve.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I love my Berettas. Got two 92fs and a 96fs. The only gripe I have is that they're freakin' cannons - tough to carry concealed.

Bud's has had them regularly, and the price is usually reasonable.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/39954

FWIW, my FFL loves the XD. Personally, I've never even handled one. But I have Sig P229s and CZ P-01s, along with the Berettas. I like them all. Reliable all day long, and the CZ feels like a dream in your hand. I'm looking for one more .40, and can't decide between the XD or the CZ P-06, which is just a P-01 in .40 S&W. Decisions, decisions....

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Ahhhh, the Cugir's! After you first posted about them about a year ago, I passed one up at a gun show for $550. Been kicking myself ever since....

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/b...spx?c=95&s=959
http://www.ammodirect.com/default.as...bcategory=9x19
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...e/9mm-fmj-ammo
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemL...aspx?catid=738
http://www.ammobank.com/cgi-bin/csho...em.ctx=USA9MM1
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=130
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...requestid=4793
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=238784

You're right this stuff is freaking impossible to find.:4_1_72:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

But...but...but...9 doesn't start with 3 or 4 or 7 or even 1 or....:tongue_ma:...And it won't smack a person in the chest, lift them up off their feet, and drive them through a cinder block wall....and only girly men use 9mm...and everybody who knows anybody in the firearm community KNOWS that 9mm is a girly-man ineffective round...and it's FAR better to carry a magnum or high recoil load in a "holy" caliber, even if you can't control the recoil & develop a nice flinch in the process.

Or not.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Yes, body armor does work. Clearly you are unfamiliar with body armor ratings.

Wait, whats that? Level IIA (IIIA is the most commonly used type) protects against 9mm AND .357 magnum. Wow, that kinda makes your stupid video pointless huh?

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

As always, shot placement is the key. The traditionally lower cost of 9mm ammo helps with getting more range time with your 9mm. This added proficiency should help with any worries about the effectiveness of this caliber. Get the 9mm gun and a 1000 rounds of range ammo. Once you get a few thousand rounds through your primary CCW then you may want to come back and re-evaluate your caliber choice.

Spend your cash on training and practice ammo. IMHO.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Yo, INFANTRYNCO. Try ordering from and GETTING any of that 9mm ammo from those sources you've listed.

Sorry. Sportsmans guide is NOTORIOUS for taking your order and your money. Then you sit and wait. And wait and wait and wait. Can't say for the rest of them because I ONLY ORDER from Ammoman or AIM, as they are the two largest internet ammo suppliers. At least they used to be.

If there's so MUCH 9mm out there, then why is it that the TWO LARGEST internet sellers and the FOUR LARGEST BRICK AND MORTAR STORES DON'T HAVE ANY? Fourth one is WAL-MART BTW. THEY GOT ZIP, ZERO, NADA. And then there's the Knob Creek folks. You know, the guys who buy it by the SHIPPING CONTAINER FULL. Even THEY don't have any. Yah, there's PLENTY of 9mm out there.

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...d.php?t=365860

SO yah, go ahead and plunk it down. THEN WAIT...

Having said that, a buddy of mine in Cheyenne found six boxes of Winchester white box (100 rounds) at a hardware store, way in the back. Not near any firearms related stuff. Bought all six. $10 each.

As I've said, IT'S NOT OUT THERE IN ANY QUANTITY. But then, I purchase my ammo BY THE CASE. Silly me. I prefer to get a discount and volume. My UPS guy HATES ME when my ammo purchases arrive. Always at least five cases. Sometimes as many as fifteen cases. I always WARN him I've placed another order.

Being an NRA firearms instructor, I provide ammo and firearms to my students. I always tell them ABOUT 9mm. I also suggest they NOT purchase it. For every reason I've listed.

But hey, you keep on. And don't forget. WSHTF, you ain't got any armor/arty/air backing you up with your piddly @ss 9mm. I won't even reccomend that to a GIRL.

SO SG, how many sets of body armor do YOU OWN? ME? Several. Plus soft vests, plus several other types. I know ALL ABOUT vests. I also know that IF you shoot someone with a 9mm who is wearing a vest, all you did was PISS HIM OFF. Go watch the vid again.

CrufflerJJ,

You want to be 'lifted' off your feet by being struck with an incoming round? Let me shoot you with either a .454 Casull or the new S&W 500. Hell, the hole going IN I can almost put my fist through. The hole going out is ... massive.

I stand by what I said. 9mm is for GIRLS and other whimps that can't handle the recoil from a REAL man sized caliber. Unless you are Marcus Luttrell or most other Spec For people. But even THEY don't carry 9mm in the field if they can keep from it. I guess the Navy Seals use 9mm because they can swap ammo from their suppressed MP5's into their Baretta 92's. But they can 'dot the eye and cross the tee' as it were. I kinda doubt mocha (OP) will be able to do that with a new 9mm right out of the box.

Hell, I bet NONE OF YOU CAN EITHER. I used to be able to. But my vision ain't what it was 35 years ago.

But hey, EVERYONE NEEDS A GOOD RATIONALIZATION EVERY ONCE AND A WHILE. But it's not a caliber I'd bet my life or the life of my family on.

Same goes for the .223/5.56 - as the Spec For guys found out. It's just NOT enough 'umph' coming out of the barrel. And when you are out in the toolies all by yourself with bad guys coming at you it's not a caliber I want to be FORCED to rely on. I want to shoot them once (ok, I shoot EVERYTHING twice) and NOT have them get back up.

Unless you are Bob Munden or Jerry Miculek (sp?) you should ALWAYS get the largest caliber you can handle to shoot.

Apparently for some folks here, that's 9MM...:111:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Well, as far as I'm concerned, ANYTHING smaller than .22 is worthless....I'll be keeping my 5.56 thank you very much.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Damn... someone here appears to have some reservations about their own masculinity...

:bear_rolleyes:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Good idea. I guess I'll be giving up all my .308 and going to 7.62x51, since 7 is bigger than 3. Except on Tuesdays, or where prohibited by law.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I've been able to find 9mm just fine. Online is very hard but I don't buy online anyway. Local gun shops always have the premium types and brands I'm looking for. It's just the cheap junk that is hard to find and I don't buy that anyway.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

H,
Go have a LONG talk with the Spec For guys that went to Chris Murray of the AMU outside of normal channels and literally BEGGED him to find them a better caliber on the same platform.

About six weeks later, he provided them with the working version of the 6.8mm for testing purposes.

Testing over in the sand is not as successful as they had hoped. The military is NOW taking old M14's out of arsenals, refitting them and sending THOSE over.

WHY? Because the caliber starts with a THREE. Sorry bud, but you sound just like the guy who I went to school with. He's military. Currently an armorer for a 3rd Spec For group.

He SWORE by the .223 - even worked at the AMU for two years or so. LOVED the M4/M16.

Until he got over 'in the sand'. He called me one day from Afghanistan (I was stunned) and told me I was right. If your EBR caliber doesn't start with a three you are wasting your time.

This guy knows his sheet. He should. He's STILL doing it. I don't know exactly where he is at this moment (I don't ask, he doesn't volunteer info), but hopefully he will have his twenty and then retire and get back home by sometime this summer. I told him there are only two folks I would trust at my back. HIM and a marine buddy of mine.

He's been ordering TONS of dehydrated food and having it shipped to my house. I'm sitting on it till he comes home. I tell him he BETTER come back or I'm eating his food and shooting his ammo. We then have a good laugh. His stash of dehydrated food is now larger than mine. But my pantry with MY canned goods is three times that and then some.

I've considered him a younger brother I never had. I'm trying to talk him out of one of his Dragunovs. YES, a real Dragunov with four mags serial numbered to the gun with the correct scope and a drag case. Came from Russia. I've held it. Actually, the correct word is probably FONDLED rather than held.

But it goes towards what I've been saying.

THIRTY CALIBER OR LARGER. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

Cruffler, since you are giving your 7.62 up, send it MY WAY. Because hey, like you said, it ain't a three. Now you are just being STUPID.

Randall,
See, that's WHY the 9mm is so popular. Because IT IS CHEAPER. And range time is VERY important. But if you want CHEAP and deadly consider the 7.62x25.

Did you guys forget the testing done by 'Box o Truth'??? Go to the link provided and look at the 'Box o Truth #29' Helmet o truth. Pretty much covers it. Yah a .223 will penetrate through and through a kevlar helmet. But for a PISTOL ROUND? THE ONLY ONE THAT DID IT WAS THE 7.62x25 and the HOT LOADED .357 mag. Go figure.
http://digg.com/d1IW8d

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I thought about buying a new 9mm...

So I went to a small, local gun show a week ago and picked up 500 rds of FMJ.

Then bought these two yesterday, a Beretta CX4 Storm and a 92 FS. Both use the 92 mags. (picture off the internet)

I plan to use Winchester Ranger 147 SXT (Black Talon) hollow points in the carbine.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I agree. I wish that I could get a decent pistol in 7.62x25. Instead we are left with the surplus stuff out there. If I had the money I'd set my self up with a 9x25 Dillon platform!

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Don't listen to the guy spouting off about 9mm not being enough. For some reason he says he understands math but clearly doesn't or he's just so mad at life that he can't understand what we have clearly pointed out. He said you need atleast a .30 caliber and it has been pointed out many times in this thread that 9mm is OVER .30 caliber.

also as I pointed out in my first post I've bought around 2000 rounds in the last MONTH at...WAL-MART!! Granted the online bulk purchase stores are out of ammo, but I find it regularly at walmarts around here just fine. I call ahead and ask if they have it, and I know when they restock the shelves (hint...after 8pm but before 9pm since the gun counters close at 9...atleast around here). I've bought blazer brass and winchester white box without problem. I haven't had a problem and if you're persistent and patient you will get ammo. It only took me a month to stockpile 1000 rounds and I'm not done yet (I've fired the other 1000 this month in my glock 17).

I'm glad you chose 9mm its a fine round but you have to realize the limitations of a pistol. They're a last pitch close quarters weapon

Big Country

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

9MM=.38 caliber, just saying!

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

WOW BC,

You blather on and on about how great a 9mm is.

THEN QUALIFY IT WITH THAT BOLDED PART OF YOUR STATEMENT. NONE OF MY PISTOLS HAVE LIMITATIONS.

Not my wife's .357 mag.

Not my CZ52's.

Not my AK Pistol.

Either of those WILL DO THE WORK OF A RIFLE. OH, WAIT, all of those ARE RIFLE CALIBERS. .357 Lever Action takes down small game such as deer. My CZ52's ammo are used in what the Russians considered their 'assualt rifle' of WWII - the PPSh41 and the PPS43. The AK, well if you don't know, my explaining it won't help any.

And that 9mm camp rifle? That's to make you all guys feel good about choosing a girls caliber. :111:

BC, you should really not talk about things you don't understand.

GB,
That's why I suggest a .357 MAGNUM. So you can start out training with the .38 spl THEN STEP UP to the real deal. Geez, try reading what I said. With JUST a 9mm you can't step up to the real deal. Well, I guess you can. IF YOU BUY A DIFFERENT CALIBER IN A DIFFERENT GUN.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

9MM HP +p or +p+ rounds will stop someone cold if you hit them with it. Crazy to think otherwise. "15 in the clip and 1 in the hole" and I am 100% sure I can protect myself and the family.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Gman,

Good for you. Too bad when that turns out to NOT BE TRUE.

Again, go read what happened in MIAMI to the FIBBIES. Or the LAPD during the bank robbery they tried to stop. Which they did basically with a guy's .357 backup gun.

Shheeeet man. Go argue your puny punk caliber to make yourselves feel good.

But don't even PRETEND IN THE REAL WORLD THAT A 9MM WILL DO THE JOB ANY WHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS THE .357 MAG. Hell, it isn't even as good as the FIFTY PLUS YEAR OLD 7.62x25 ammo out of my CZ52.

Again, go look at 'Box o Truth'. 9MM didn't even PENETRATE a kevlar helmet. Nor did it do any serious bodily damage to ANYONE wearing a soft vest, much less body armor.

So much for protecting you and your family once SHTF. You think they are coming at you NAKED?:111:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Wait, are we arguing that 9MM is worthless in general or worthless against body armor and kevlar?

If in general you are crazy, if against armor then sure. I will be grabbing my S12 or my AK-47 if people with armor are coming at me.

I carry my G19 as my CCW weapon because I don't expect to ever have to shot it out with someone in armor. I don't expect a crackhead or some gangbanger to be in armor Wallew. If I could carry my S12 all the time I would, but I can't.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Go with a HK...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../HK_USP_45.jpg

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Gangbangers THESE DAYS can have better VESTS than the police wear. They have WAY more money than most police departments and have WAY better connections.

When money is no object, getting what you want is fairly easy. And in ANY SHTF scenario, you BETTER PLAN for facing MNZ's wearing body armor. Because they will be. Right after they pop a cop in the back of the head and take it off his/her still warm body.

Come on folks. CATCH UP. THIS IS THE 21st Century. Not the 19th Century.

Watch the guys who robbed the bank in LA. FULL BODY ARMOR.


THAT WAS 1997 - TWELVE YEARS AGO. What, you don't think the bad guys learned any lessons from this?

Come on. Live and learn. WHILE YOU CAN.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

The fact that the robbery you mentioned was 12 years ago and has not come close to being repeated on that level does not help your argument.

Show us all the incidents since that robbery where the bad guys are armored up. Again most gangbangers are not walking around robbing people while wearing armor. Most gangbangers are some dumbass teen trying to rob a pizza parlor wearing a wifebeater and nothing more.

If TSHTF I don't think a lot of us on these boards who own a 9MM handgun will be planning on it being are #1 firearm at hand. I will be open carrying then my S12 on my back with my AK on my side.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Gman,
Actually it was repeated. THE VERY NEXT DAY. It just never made the news. And the cops in Pittsburg (I think it was Pittsburg) were ready for them.

And you aren't talking about 'gangbangers' as the kids who rob pizza palors. Those are gangbanger wannabes.

ME? I'm talking about MS-13. Crips. Bloods. THOSE ARE GANGBANGERS.

Don't forget the 1% motorcyclists either. Angels, Bandido's, SOS, etc..

You don't think THEY HAVE VESTS? Dude, these groups have full automatic weapons, grenade launchers, LAW's.

There was a gunbattle in SWEDEN of all places where a group of Angels and a rival MC fought it out. Using LAW's and full auto weapons. Didn't make the news here.

But you should be able to Google it.

Hey, don't believe me. That's kewl. One less person who will see the second sunrise AFTER SHTF. Not my problem. That just means there are less people to split the dwindling resources with.

just sayin...

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Off topic, Gangland is a good show to learn about all these groups. I just finished downloading the first 2 seasons.

Anyway I am in Southern Ohio. None of those gangs are an issue here. Neither are the Motorcycle clubs as long as you show respect they show respect back.

Why the hell are you trying to argue that 9MM is pointless anyway? You keep refering back to SHTF, none of us are arguing that point with you Wallew. We are arguing the here and now. Again when TSHF yes 9MM will be one of the last calibers we have to fall back on.

You make me think you are about to be caught up in TSHF like in the cheesy ass scene from SWAT when the four trucks full of like bloods, crips, mexicans and skinheads all magically are working together to rescue the bad guy.

These gangs are bad, but if you are about to be caught up in a firefight with MS-13, Bandidos or whatever, I don't care if you have a f ucking bazooka on your shoulder and you can fire 20mm rounds from your ass. You are about to be f ucking dead.


IN bold since you keep ignoring the fact that i AGREED with you right away that 9mm is not a good caliber if TSHTF. I already said I will have better firearms for that situation. Why do you keep ignoring this Wallew?

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Gman,

Two reasons.

First and foremost I don't want ANYONE TO DEPEND on a 9mm thinking it will 'do the job', when it won't.

Second, I've lost TWO FRIENDS to gun violence in the past thirty years.

My first friend used to be my roommate and was mugged. He was a pacifist and actually turned over his money from his wallet and THEN the person shot him. Once at close range. Clipped his aorta. He was dead before he hit the ground from systemic shock.

The other friend was a member of the motorcycle club I belonged to. We rode together all the time. She road a Fat Boy. She was a chiropracter. Nice lady. She died in the Luby's Cafeteria shootings. I KNOW she carried a pistol in her truck ALL THE TIME. She felt safe in Luby's, which is why she probably did not take it in with her. When SHTF FOR HER, she was not ready for it. It cost my friend her life.

MY POINT, GANGSTA, is that NO ONE KNOWS when SHTF for them personally. NOBODY.

I've carried concealed for years. These days, I pretty much stay home. When I go out, I'm in condition yellow, minimum. Condition red sometimes. Every once and a while, I'm in condition BLACK.

And yeah, some people here have the idea that 'it won't happen to me'.

THEY ARE WRONG. YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOUR PERSONAL SHTF WILL OCCUR. NEVER.

I can NEVER STRESS THIS ENOUGH. If I save ONE LIFE because of this, I consider my job done.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Waitaminnit.....I'M the expert here. All shall bow to ME.

Hey Stacks....(get it?) Would you believe I've got a pal who can't dump his USP 'cuz the locals all think a .45 is a 1911 platform? When they hear HK they all cock their heads to one side and start mouth-breathing. Incredible.
Know why he's trying to remove the HK from his harem?
He's switching to multi platform-common ammo units that spit out a .355 bullet at a raging 1100 feet per second! Whew!
What a stud.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

First of all I must admit that I spent about 45+ minutes angrily replying to many of the things that Wallew has spent time spewing and put good folks down about. I believe that he, even in his own little self centered, self appointed world can be clearly evaluated by others here, without me stooping to his negative level(s). After all this is a Firearms thread to help and uplift. We all can't be as perfect as the Wallew, now can we. But with regards to your comment.....

So instead I decided that I'd simply reply directly to you about this one particular comment that I take as a direct and personal attack.

First of all, I am a disabled vet. ('71-'76 - you figure that out genius) I have had to have both my wrists re-constructed and I am also partially paralyzed, and because of these I can basically only handle the recoil of my new 9mm (what you call the GIRL caliber).

Therefore, you sir, in my humble opinion, are no more than a infantile, sewage spewing, narcissistic, incredibly insecure, little POS that honestly doesn't deserve even a moment of my time, so stop already with your teenage self righteous BS. Where do you get off self elevating yourself to some god like level of knowledge, self worth, and obviously completely throwing any modicum of humility away as well.

Are you simply that insecure, that you must gain your worth on this planet measured by putting others down and saying that basically it's your way and there is nothing else.

Finally, there were a limited number of special people, thank God, such as yourself when I was in. As it turned out for some strange and weird reason, things happened to them when the SHTF. I will pray for you, that if/when the time does come again, for your sake, it doesn't turn out to be that girl sized, just piss em off, 9mm you so fondly attack.

With all due respect Wallew, Go Bow It Out Your Arse, :ok:
RK

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

All the more reason to train for and focus on head shots to the point of instinctive accuracy... but, of course, I'm just blowing smoke! :thumb.aspx:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

You're either retarded or never owned a gun in your life. I'd put my puny DPMS A-15 5.56mm (that's a .223 cal, since your math is a little shaky) against any handgun you can conceive at 300m.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Hmmm....methinks the natives are getting restless and increasingly unimpressed. Not that I can blame them, mind you.

In a polite manner, of course (even though I'm "being stupid")!

9mm works for me, as would .38SPL, .357, .40S&W, 7.62x25, .45ACP,..........

It's the user, not the tool.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I was very happy with the quality...fit & finish of this CZ75b SA
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...cz75bSA005.jpg

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Well said and thanks you for service and sacrifice. I am sorry to hear about your disability, but am glad to hear it hasn't prevented you from being able to enjoy firearms.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Though I don't have a 357, either revolver or rifle... that's my achilles heel, deeply held heart secret.

I can empty a full 357 at rapid fire into a steel plate 25 yards away with one hand holding the gun. Oh! And it's great for killing cougars as they try to pounce on you off a cliff (and, no, I'm not talking about older women... LOL!).

If I were rich, I'd get the best 357 mag revolver out there, and a rifle to go with it... oh... and plenty of ammo, and the presses to reload.

OK, I'm a crazy dreamer... what can I say?

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

THAT IS SOOO RIGHT!!!

It's the user, not the tool...a 22LR could be worse than higher calibers.

Thanks for pointing that out!

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Not my "style," but sure looks sexy! :ok:

P.S. And aesthetically artistic... sharp gun! And I've investigated it... great piece! Good choice!

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Funny I had almost forgotten about that guy W.
You see I put him on ignore not long after I signed on. I found like you that it is just not worth the time or frustration. Now the only time I see his posts is when someone quotes it.
You should try the same as I did it is a nice feature & works quite well.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Mocha, have you thought of getting a .40 by chance? Its basicaly a cross between a 9mm and a .45, its a bit more snappy in recoil, but it is standard police issue(SHTF, extra ammo availability) and has a higher capacity than a .45, with slightly better ballistics than a 9mm.


Just a thought.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Don't know what all the fuss is about? 9mm looks like it can hold it's own with the other calibers.

Attachment 67948

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

But as you (or anyone, not like myself, who is busy "being stupid") can clearly see, the 9mm cavity is smaller & far less impressive than the other calibers. That OBVIOUSLY means that it is only a girly-man caliber, fit for lesser mortals.

All I can say is that in ~19 years of running medic, I NEVER had a gunshot patient complain that they'd rather be hit by a larger diameter projectile the next time they were shot. This included folks who'd been popped with 9mm, .40S&W, rifle, and shotgun. It even included those who were dead - the calibers I mentioned before all seemed to do the job quite adequately.

Shoot what you can control & shoot accurately. Shoot what has proven to be a reliable weapon with your chosen ammunition (not a cheap jam-o-matic). Shoot what fits your hand nicely. Stopping power is a myth (at least with hand-held weapons). I tend to carry a 9mm, but would not depend on a .45ACP to "stop" a subject any better than a well placed expanding 9mm. I guess that's just my "stupid" side talking, though.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Wow. Look at that .357 Sig. Over 1300 f/s - that's a lot of energy. Too bad that round never really caught on. Ammo wasn't easy to find for it (here anyway) before the Obamanation. And it was always expensive.

I picked up two Sig P229s in .357 Sig years ago on a whim (consecutively numbered), but probably have less than 250 rounds stashed.

I've read nothing but good reviews on every version of the CZ-75. Good choice. As I said before, I love my P-01s.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Obviously it has a smaller cavity, it's a smaller round, but like you said. I don't think you'll hear anyone say they'd rather be shot by (insert round of choice here)

9mm does an adequate job, it wouldn't be as widely used as it is if it was a "worthless round".

It's killed it's fair share of people, same as any other round including 22 and 25 calibar.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

WOW RK,

All you've got is direct personal attacks? That's it?

You state specifically "I can basically only handle the recoil of my new 9mm".

Really? Then you haven't tried the CZ52. Same recoil, MUCH better round than the 9mm. 1600 - 2200 fps. Cuts through just about everything. Hell, it's even CHEAPER than the 9mm to shoot. Or perhaps try the Romanian TTC Tokarev shooting the same caliber. It's only $200 from J&G.

Teenage? We are very close to the same age. I'm 56. I've spent my life learning things. Two degrees. The GUNSMITHING ONE gives me not only the knowledge, but the AUTHORITY to speak my mind clearly on firearms. Same goes for being a certified NRA firearms instructor for more than 12 years.

I SPECIALIZE in training women who've never shot before. We start with a .22, move up to a .357 (loaded w/.38 spls - I offer the opportunity to fire full load .357 mag), then up to the CZ52 so they can see how little (if any) difference there is between that and the .38 spl. We end the session by firing one of several of my AK's. That ALWAYS brings the smiles to the ladies face. The start out going, "bang"........ "bang"......... "bang". I stop them and go "No, fire it like this" "bang, bang, bang, bang". Then THEY GO "bang, bang, bang, bang." They just eat it up. I've brought more women into the gun culture over the past decade than I can count. You know how much I charge them? N O T H I N G. You know WHY? Because I'd rather have one more member in MY GUN CULTURE than money. THAT'S WHY.

How many women have you trained in the past decade and been able to give them the NRA certification, HMMM?

Oh, and ANY gunsmith worth his salt will be as OPINIONATED AS I AM, perhaps even more so. OH AND YOU DON'T AGREE WITH OR LIKE MY OPINION? GROW UP AND DON'T FVCKING TAKE IT. It's really pretty simple. But insecure? HARDLY. I've walked the walk. I don't NEED to talk with people who don't want this info. If you don't want to read what I write, there is an IGNORE feature on EVERY Vbulletin site I've ever been on, as a member or a mod. Like flying has done.

I spent more time studying firearms, building firearms, and TRAINING OTHERS TO SHOOT FIREARMS of all sorts than you. Makes you crazy, obviously. To say the least. And once you've lost two close friends to gun violence on the STREETS OF AMERICA, you can criticize that part of what I've said. But until then, you are just blustering to make YOURSELF feel better.

I don't 'put others down'. BUT I WILL CORRECT PEOPLE WHO ARE PUTTING FORTH INCORRECT INFORMATION. Like you. Saying you can only handle the recoil of the 9mm. That's a LIE. PLEASE, go try others. There are a lot of choices out there BESIDES the 9mm that you could handle easily. But you have chosen NOT TO. Your choice, not mine. Too bad. There are loads of OTHER CHOICES OUT THERE. Most are better than the 9mm.

Until then, you're just a jealous person who DOESN'T KNOW DOO DAH about the gun culture and the firearms in it and consistently proves it by your ignorance of firearms.

If you want to base the protection of you and your family on a caliber that is at BEST marginal, hey it's your family and your life. I could really care less. And once you've spent the time to earn YOUR gunsmithing degree, guess what? You can be as large an @sshole as I AM. :111:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

RK,
I forgot to mention. MY CZ52's ALL have a 9mm replacement barrel. So if I WANTED to shoot 9mm, I can. But I don't.

As 9mm CZ52 drop in barrels are no longer available, it's just another 'selling point' if I do decide to sell one or two of them. You know, to guys like you who can 'only handle the recoil of a 9mm'...

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

wallew, your troll job on this thread is certainly above average. I salute you.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

If you are hellbent on a 9mm, Id go with a Glock 17. That was my 1st pistol I bought when I turned 21 and I still have it. I will keep it forever. For CHL purposes I use the Glock 30SF and the 21 when hot ass Houston permits in the winter time. The Glock will take abuse like no other and still keep going and its very easy to field strip and clean. Let us know what you get.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

W?
Are you referring to that pathetic excuse for the little man, who goes by the ID something like... WallWHO? who is not only insecure within himself but also doesn't have a clue as to his purpose for his being here.....

Do you mean the bung hole, known as WallWHO?, that must try to gain dominance, and revert to beratment in every little situation, in order to justify his infantile mere existence?

Is that who you mean....that WallWHO? or is it WallSTOOL or something like that....

If it is that same WallWHO?, or WallSTOOL or what ever he went by, that you are referring to......like soooooo many others here with common sense, who have also placed this IGNORANT WallWHO? on IGNORE. You bet I did.....I learned a long time ago, that you can not talk with Pathetic, for they must always have their way. For me it felt about the same as having a good bowel movement.....WallSTOOL has now been flushed!!!

Ever think why they call it IGNORE? It's because when you come up against the truly IGNORANT, such as WallWHO?, it's time to IGNORE.
Yet another reason to be thankful.....

Y'all enjoy your weekend,
RK

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

For anyone who actually CARES about self defense.

Have you NOTICED how none of these 9mm BOOBS don't even bother to address the facts I've posted.

They just attack ME.

That's kewl.

Water off a ducks back.

Oh, and ROAD KING, it guys LIKE you who not only don't know dick about the gun culture, you don't know DICK about the motorcycle culture either. Because if you did, you would KNOW that what I've said is all true.

And for anyone who owns a 9mm for what ever reason (it's cheaper to shoot, it's cheaper to purchase, there's not as much recoil, etc, etc, etc) GO GET A REAL GUN SHOOTING A REAL CALIBER. Give that pea shooter to your wife.

OH, WAIT. Your WIFE already has one. Probably with PINK GRIPS. :111: Oh wait, the 9mm with the PINK GRIPS IS YOURS!

And congrats. You are only the SECOND PERSON who's made MY IGNORE LIST. Figures you've been here SINCE NOV 2008 with less than 300 posts. Probably a shill and a troll. Probably don't even OWN a gun.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

biggest wankoff douchenozzle thread ever

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Agreed. +9

Oops! I mean + .44 mag. Didn't mean to insult with a girly number.

:bear_rolleyes:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Someone has overcompensation issues.

:smile:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Show proof of any surplus or commercial 7.62x25 breaking 1600 fps.

Every time you post you prove what a ignoramus you are.

I have replied to your posts, yet you have not replied to mine. This is because you do not have facts to back up your drivel.

There is no way in hell you were ever a gunsmith. Well, not a successful one, anyway.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I hear ya'. I doubt there is anymore contentious topic on internet forums than the 9mm debate, well maybe the AK vs. AR flamefests. I do not claim great knowledge about weapons, I am not a gunsmith, nor a soldier or a cop. My only pedigree is growing up in a family that views firearms as a tool for hunting and self defense. I don't see people getting riled up about tools, see no flamefests on Bosch vs. Milwaukee. :wink: Why is it that debates about firearms can devolve into personal attacks?

That said, I take advise from a variety of sources and from my own limited experience. If it works and makes sense, I'll go with it.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

On the tools thing......
Dude........
It's Makita vs. DeWalt......
Sheesh.
:tongue_ma::tongue_ma::tongue_ma::tongue_ma:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Good catch hyperevel....

I was just about to jump all over Ag_man about the err of his tool ways.....:biggrin:

Thanks,
RK

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Thanks guys, you've set me straight! :ok: :biggrin:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

:coolbeer:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

A bb pistol will let you get a lot of target practice at home, the more you shoot the better you get. Just stick to the basic's at first.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Simple solution......go buy something reliable that you are comfortable and accurate with in every common caliber. That way you can shoot both ways if the mood strikes ya!

:s9::s9:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

INco,
Really? Do you actually OWN a chronograph? Do you know how they work? I had a friend stop by this evening telling me that he shot ten groups of eight shots each with his (new to him) CZ52. It chronoed no more that 45 fps through ALL the groups. From 1685 - 1730fps.

RIFLES DON'T GET THAT CLOSE, WITH HAND LOADS. Much less commercial and DEFINITATELY NOT WITH MILSURP, which is what he was shooting.

There are NUMEROUS places that give this kind of info. But I don't do OTHER LAZY SHEETS RESEARCH FOR THEM. Which definitately includes YOU. Go do your own research, you silly little clot.

I've answered every BS statement you've made. I HAVE IGNORED YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS, that part IS TRUE.

And yah, not a gunsmith. Just a silly degree and 12 years in the field. The first year working for other folks. But the rest of the time I worked for myself. And kindly define SUCCESSFUL? You mean to make large amounts of MONEY? That's YOUR definition of successful?

You want to know how I gunsmith? I either GO to the customer or ask them over to MY place, which is what I prefer. Though I have gone to customers sites on many occasions. But all my TOOLS and all my SUPPLIES are at MY HOUSE.

I will then discuss what the problem is. I discuss when it started and I ask numerous questions on what other fixes were tried. I then disassemble the firearm with the customer sitting next to me, describing not only WHAT I'm doing but WHY I'm doing it. I find the problem and with them WATCHING ME, I fix it. From broken parts, to trigger jobs, to simplistic repairs such as loose screws in wood stocks, etc. I then clean the entire weapon. I OIL the entire weapon. I then REASSMBLE the weapon. In MY WORLD (you know, as a degreed gunsmith), that's called a DCOA. Most smiths charge AT LEAST $50 for that little bit WITHOUT the customer looking over their shoulder. Gunsmithing can be a lot like making sausage. Many folks don't want to look at the process in the middle. They just like to see the end product. That's because unless each process is explained in terms the customer can understand they might not like it. But I digress.

I then hand the finished firearm back to my customer and tell them to go shoot it. Once they have shot it and they are happy with the results, they owe me $XX. I generally only charged like $25 an hour, plus the cost of parts. I never had any of my customers stiff me. EVER. And I've never lost a customer, EVER. Even now, I still have five or six that will NOT take no for an answer. But given they are basically friends or people like MY VET, I always give in. That's what friends are for. To help each other.

And I've got a story for you INco. I was in Basic in gunsmithing school. My basic instructor, Robert L, was watching us work. He came up to me and told me I would have to learn to work quicker if I wanted to make a living as a gunsmith. I looked him right in the eye and told him, "Robert, if I had wanted to make large amounts of money, I would have gone out and gotten my masters in computer science and would have bought and sold this school three times over with one years worth of salary. What I WANT out of this education is to learn how to work with my hands. Working with wood and metal. Learning HOW to operate the machines and use the chemicals necessary to make firearms. I WANT to learn how to properly make things go BOOM and not get hurt in the process. Not me. Not my client. And if it takes me TWICE AS LONG as every other student in this school, that's fine with me. Because while I may be slow, I AM A THOROUGH PERFECTIONIST. At 44, I no longer have ANYTHING TO PROVE. Not to myself and definitely NOT to anyone else."

I never heard another peep from ANY of the schools instructors on how slow I was.

OK, one chided me when I took the final because I had changed 11 correct answers to 11 incorrect answers. I knew which ones he was talking about and it dropped my final score from a solid A to a B+, which is what my overall grade was for the entire degree.

I ran into Robert at Bass Pro Shops last Monday. We shook hands and told lies about how great school was. I AGAIN THANKED THE MAN for teaching me so much about working with my hands. He was appreciative that I not only enjoyed his instruction, but that I took the time to thank him for it.

I also stopped by and saw the instructor who chided me on my final last Monday. We are good friends. We shared three tables at the Tanner Gun Show here in Denver for almost three years. I finally got to the point that I had burned out on spending every third weekend at a gunshow. It just wasn't that much fun anymore.

Hey, I GOT ENOUGH MONEY. I only do what I WANT to do. OK, and what MY WIFE wants me to do. Gotta keep the little lady happy. Aside from the fact that next Feb we will celebrate 30 years of marriage, she is literally the light and love of my life who I would die for. And she was the one who told me to stop working in the computer field and go do something I enjoyed. Four years later I entered gunsmithing school (did I mention that I was deliberate in making decisions - some folks think I'm just slow, but no, I don't make decisions until I've weighed every option). 15 months after that, I WAS a gunsmith.

But unlike most people, I NO LONGER DESCRIBE WHO I AM BY WHAT I USED TO DO.

Read my signature. I am ALL of those things. And I've removed several from my sig because I no longer enjoy them. Like being a freelance photojournalist, paid and published in the motorcycle world. For 15 years. But I sold my Harley of 15 years and $10K worth of photo gear because I grew tired of doing it. I spent 15 years going to all sorts of events, both motorcycling and non-motorcycling events and watching it all through the lens of a camera. I have pix NO ONE HAS. I have had stories published that YOU do not. I have lived a very full life. And I have enjoyed it thoroughly. Money isn't everything.

I come onto this board to try and help. And you can bet your @ss I'm opinionated. Rightfully so. I EARNED IT THE HARD WAY. BY GOING OUT AND DOING IT.

SO, you believe whatever it is you want. Because in all honesty, folks like you are small. And mean ZERO to me. You want to rag on me? GO AHEAD. I am a much better person than you will EVER be. I don't give a RAT'S @SS what you think of me. Or my career.

Because the ONLY PERSONS I ANSWER TO ARE MY GOD AND MY WIFE. Not necessarily in that order.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Usury,

You are actually correct. Take the Sig Sauer P229. It can be purchased as a .40 caliber, a .357 sig caliber and the ubiquitous 9mm caliber. All you need do to change calibers is drop in a different barrel.

Then you have three handguns in one. And a wide range of ammo available to shoot. But folks, time is definitely growing short.

ACT NOW or not. But if not, don't be upset when the time comes and you NEED a firearm and none are available.

Don't be all the people who ran into gun stores on the day of the LA riots and after picking a firearm, filling out all the paper work, and paying for it, only to be told 'come back in two weeks' because that was Kali's waiting period AT THAT TIME.

The problem will not be a waiting period. The problem will be NO FIREARMS will be available. Worse would be NO FIREARMS WILL BE ALLOWED TO BE SOLD.

Yeah, yeah, I know. That would NEVER HAPPEN HERE...

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

InfantryNCO....by no means am I trying to steal this thread from OP, but I am curious about your thoughts and results with your DPMS A-15?

I looked at one couple weeks ago, and was contemplating a purchase (~$960), but then the guy brought over several AK's. (~$450). Hate it when that happens. Decisions, Decisions.....




Sure hope wallSPEW doesn't chime in, cuz ya know biatch got knowledge that must be disceminated......Oh wait, he's on ignore.

Chime away wallSPEW.

TIA,
RK

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

RK,
I've got an idea.

Instead of HIJACKING this thread, how about you start YOUR OWN.

Instead of attacking everyone around you that DISAGREES WITH YOU, go elsewhere.

We need YOUR INPUT like we need a root canal. Or a colonoscopy.

punk

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Not a bad idea, you, me, and everyone else who is off topic here should follow this advice as well. The OP asked about the M&P not the 9mm cartridge. If anyone wants to debate the cartridge, start your own thread, posts here should be about the M&P or Glock options as those are what the OP said he wanted info on.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

SG,

No offense, but ACTUALLY the poster said SPECIFICALLY 9mm in the TITLE of this thread.

Sorry dude, but the OP brought it up FIRST. Not the other way around. I just pointed out the flaws IN the 9mm round.

just sayin...

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Yes, he did say he wanted a 9mm. He wanted info guns chambered for 9mm. He did not ask for your opinion or mine on the effectiveness of the cartridge. Thus making your "pointing out the flaws" off topic.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Mocha,
You ever decide and pick up a pistol? Id' be curious to see what you decided upon, and the caliber......
RK :ok:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

haha, This thread is crazy. Never thought it would come to all this pushing and shoving. But let's put it this way... I never got out. Forgot it was Easter weekend and so according to my wife I had other plans... *yawn* :sleep:

Maybe this weekend I will get out.

I am left handed. Will this make a difference you think if I get a glock or a M&P?

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

The M&P is ambidextrous, the Glock is not.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

C&L 1911.....Now that thar is funny. Almost fell out of the chair !!!

:111::111::111:

Actually, (I'm editing this) I don't know enough about Glocks, so maybe you were serious and they can't be swap'd to make em for lefty's. I can't imagine a gun producer limiting to only righties, but heck what do I know....

RK

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

mocha, hope you and yours had a blessed Easter weekend.

I know that the M&P's come basically set up for right handed shooter, but with that said, the only real items is the mag realease, which can be swapped over rather easy for a lefty. Not sure about other brands, but I might assume they'd have to either have left handed pistols, or same capabilities to swap minor hardware over to accomodate yous lefties.

Just make sure it feels comfortable in your hand and realize what function you want out of it. (i.e. Home defense, Conceal Carry etc.)

When I tried my M&P with the medium grip, it didn't feel perfect, but then the gun shop guy swapped it to the larger grip and that's when she felt great, to me.....It's an extremely easy swap as well.....

Good Luck,
RK

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Some one is still selling AK's for 450$????

If so, ask if hell mail to an FFL, Ill buy one right now, in cash or silver ;)

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Hey, Mocha:
I am a lefty too! For a modern pistol, I am looking at the Springfield Armory XD40. Super reliable, more stopping power than the 9mm (so I understand) and reasonable around 600FRN. It has an ambidextrous mag release, trigger plus grip safety with two indicators showing the pistol is cocked and the other showing a round chambered.

I have been reading this thread with interest, as I, too, have been needing to purchase a pistol.

I do not understand the harrassment of Wallew?

I am NOT a gun expert in any way, shape or form but I can read, think and ask questions.

I will say that his observations about ammo are accurate. Where I live in southern Delaware 9mm, .40 and .45 cal are difficult to get. Wallyworld ONLY has shotgun shells and rifle 22 ammo. All other is absent and they do not know when re-stocking will occur. The nearest gun dealer ONLY sells 3 boxes to a customer. He states there is too much demand and the manufacturers cannot keep up.

I was intrigued by Wallew's claims about the 7.62x25 ammo. It is good stuff, and any handgun that fires it as well. The ammo has great penetration power, according to my research. I am looking into the CZ52. It may be old but if the grip is right, it will be worth considering.

Ammo is cheap and easy to find! I can get 1200 rounds delivered to my door for 130FRN! That is cheap!!!!!!!

Keep this thread going, I am enjoying the reports of everyones favorite pistols.

I am considering the XD40 and the CZ52 at this point.

The GreatAg

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Would you mind sharing that source with us! I'm a new CZ-52 owner and so far, very pleased with the pistol. I'm getting a set of new walnut grips for mine, to replace the cheap plastic Commie grips.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

You don't want too much penetration from your self-defense/carry gun; transfer of energy and expansion is what matters the most in a typical street confrontation. A good modern hollow point 9mm will do more damage and be more effective on street rats than the 7.62x25 that will zip right through the perp without much expansion/fragmentation potentially hitting a bystander behind. And good like finding good self-defense ammo in 7.62x25 - it doesn't exist.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

QFT.
The Tokarev would be far better as an offensive pistol and not for close quarters personal defense (granted any gun is good for that if it's in your hand and loaded). The upside to penetrating power is turning cover into concealment. In a typical self defense scenario if you have the other guy ducking behind cover then you are 90% out of the woods and trying to turn his cover into rubble is time better spent getting hell away.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Exactly. The right tool for the right job - that's all there is to it. Our Mr. "I-know-it-all-because-I-have-a-degree-in-gunsmithing" seems to be preparing to take on an army of zombies wearing Kevlar vests and helmets with nothing but his CZ52, so it seems like his judgment is a little clouded. All one needs to do is do a little research and see what each cartridge was designed for and what its best best qualities are. If you want to wound someone wearing 3 heavy coats - then go ahead and grab your CZ52 (or better year, get a rifle). But if all you need is to be able to stop shirt and jacket wearing gun/knife wielding perp dead in his tracks - a good 9mm hollow point will get the job done if that's all you have. A .45 would be preferred though. :)

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Actually, there are some reasonable loads in that caliber (but good luck finding them in stock). There's a 60 grain Gold Dot load, a 100 grain XTP load (not sure how decent the XTP bullets are nowadays about expanding - they used to have excessive penetration in some calibers), and there used to be (may still be) a 85 grain hollow point load by Wolf. If you realllly want to spend some bucks, there's also a MagSafe load in 7.62x25.

That being said, I'll take my Ranger RA9T 9mm or Gold Dot loads in 9mm & feel OK about it.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

And that is why I wanted it. I have a good defensive system at my house, and it is advertised as such. Anyone wanting to get in will either be desperate or professional. Desperate I can deal with easily enough. It is the professional that concerns me. If he comes in, he will likely have a partner. Penetration will be key. He will either have body armor or his partner will be behind him. One shot, two hits. Plus, if they are hiding behind a wall, I call still take them down.

I would prefer to not get engaged in a fire fight in my house. That is why I openly advertise my defenses. Although the IR sensor pepper spray interior alarms will hopefully blind the intruder before I get to him, making my job easier.

I prefer penetration. The round should still cause serious problems requiring a hospital visit within a couple of days if I miss vital areas.

The Great Ag

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Considering that .40 s&w is actually the easiest ammo to find these days you might check out an XDm40...personally I have an XDm9 and I highly recommend it.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

If that's what you're preparing for, then you definitely need a rifle, because CZ52 will not cut it. Something along the lines of Krink in 7.62x39 for maneuverability in tight areas, or better yet an M1. Besides, if "professionals" are coming for you, there will be more than 2 of them there, and you shooting back at them with anything will not change their mind about getting to you; if nothing else, it will make you dead quicker.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Just got this 9mm today..TAURUS 24/7 PRO™ 9MM COMPACT WITH TITANIUM ......http://www.taurususa.com/products/pr...ategory=Pistol

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Anthing less than a .50 caliber handgun is a waste of time and money!

Better yet, get a custom-built .470 or .500 nitro-express snubbie! That'll do ya!

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Wow, sorry to be just now answering you. Been busy.

Anyway, I like the A-15. Bought it used for $725 last year and have put maybe 800 rounds through it, all LC M855 (let's face it, I get a goooood deal on m855...).

I grew up in the Army on the AR platform, so that's what I shoot best with. Also have a DPMS LR308 that I love too. It's all a matter of preference. Both AK and AR platforms have their pros and cons, just depends on what you shoot best with.

About the only thing I don't like about the A-15 is the fixed carrying handle. But then again, I'm not a big optics guy. The weapon was designed to be used at 500m and closer, so really no need for glass.

No runs, drips, or errs. The rifle shoots where it's pointed, and does it consistently. The A-15 gets two thumbs up from me.

Hope that helped.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

went an shot the new gun today it real nice .. little are no recoil an easy in the hand to hold an fire

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I hope that thing don't get you killed man....

I hate those guns..

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showp...60&postcount=5
Taurus PT-145 Pro

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

thanks jj ill watch it ... going to go an shot some more before i start packing it as my carry gun . did yours have the TITANIUM slides

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

In testing 100 rounds of new Winchester white box 9mm (117 grain fmj bullet) the spread on the chrono tells the tail.

The spread was over 600 fps. From 940 - 1560 fps.

So much for the 9mm NOT overpenetrating. It's ALSO very inconsistent.

The 7.62x25 has a spread (again using 100 rounds of milsurp ammo) of just at 45 fps. I posted those numbers earlier.

And if some bad guy is coming at me in shorts and shirt, I'll pepper him with 00 buck.

BUT, if I want to stop a car? 7.62x25.

And if ANYONE can find a good AK in the $450 range, BUY IT.

Classic Arms shows only one AK in the $520 range. The rest are $600 - $800.

For all you people 'who-don't-like-me-because-I-know-way-more-about-the-gun-culture-than-you-do'. WHO CARES?

You are the ones who have a bug up your @ss. All I've ever done is provide the information. Use it. DON'T USE IT.

I could PERSONALLY GIVE A SHEET.

But if you think 9mm is a great cartridge, I hope you have your funeral arrangements and your will in order. Because it WILL FAIL YOU, at the worst possible moment. Like it did the FBI in Miami or the LAPD in the bank robbery.

In BOTH instances it's TWO GUYS, and ONLY TWO GUYS. They were both determined. They both ended up dead in the long run. But they both did massive damage against both Law Enforcement agencies that engaged them.

Think about it. The 9mm carried by both agencies was INEFFECTIVE. And that's what some people here want to base their self defense on.

Good luck with that.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I do not recall if it was marketed as such - but it sure as hell didn't hold up like Titanium.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

Nice try Wallew.

:4_1_72:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Looks like a lot of .38's/.357's to me. The Miami and North Hollywood bank cases are not examples of lack 9mm effectiveness, but rather the limitations of the handgun as a weapon. In both cases the cops were gunned because the suspects were armed with rifles and fully automatic ones in the case of North Hollywood.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Never heard of a 117gr. 9mm load.

I call BS. Either you're intentionally twisting the facts, or you had a mix of regular, +P and +P+ ammo and couldn't even tell.

Ever heard of JHP ammo? Larger wound cavity, more energy disbursement, less penetration.

Of course... because you always carry your 12ga with you. And because 8 or 9 .32 caliber pellets will turn a BG into dust, while the girly 9mm bullet (.356 caliber) that chronos @ 1650 fps (the same as your 7.62x25 BTW) and weights up to 60% more than the 7.62x25 bullet will barely penetrate the human skin.

As someone who carries a gun for self-defense, you're not likely to have to stop a car. And even if you do, your 7.62x25 won't stop it, much like any other pistol caliber unless you get very lucky. It's not Hollywood...

Fixed it for you.

Ditto for when you try stopping that car with your magic 7.62x25...

This has already been addressed multiple times even in this thread, so I won't bother.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I don't want to derail the awesome furball we have going in here, but I'd like to axe a question. I was wondering what some folks thought of the 10mm auto? Whats the recoil like say compared to a .357 magnum? More, less? Ammo too hard to find spensive?

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

+1 on the 10mm...Some compare it favorably to .41 mag, but I think that's a stretch. It is everything a 357 mag is with a wider variety of bullets/loads available. Like all other pistol ammo, it is scarce and expensive, but lends itself readily to reloading.

Glock 29...More concealable. A handfull with full loads, reduced loads are quite controllable.

Glock 20...Mine carries a KKM 5" barrel, and is loaded for bear with 200 XTPs @ 1250 fps.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

OOPS, missed it by 2 GRAINS (that's what I get for reading the box without my reading glasses on) --- 115 gr 9mm FMJ Winchester White box

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=631075

And you've done this by shooting THE TWO AMMO'S YOU JUST MENTIONED OVER YOUR CHRONOGRAPH, RIGHT? The only BS is out your mouth. You don't even OWN a chronograph.

Quote:

Originally Posted by C&L Ever heard of JHP ammo? Larger wound cavity, more energy disbursement, less penetration.

WOW, never heard of that one... What a freaking maroon. I was SPECIFICALLY comparing 9mm FMJ against 7.62x25 FMJ. BOTH were light rounds that were FMJ. You want to compare apples to oranges to fit YOUR CRITERIA. Sorry, not doing that. I'm comparing apples to apples.

Quote:

Originally Posted by C&L Of course... because you always carry your 12ga with you. And because 8 or 9 .32 caliber pellets will turn a BG into dust, while the girly 9mm bullet (.356 caliber) that chronos @ 1650 fps (the same as your 7.62x25 BTW) and weights up to 60% more than the 7.62x25 bullet will barely penetrate the human skin.

WOW. You must be more myopic than I am. I'm RETIRED. I STAY AT HOME. I've said it so many times, I can't actually believe that you MISSED THAT ONE. I rarely leave my house. I have a pistol in reach right now and my 12 gauge is about six quick steps in my hall closet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by C&L As someone who carries a gun for self-defense, you're not likely to have to stop a car. And even if you do, your 7.62x25 won't stop it, much like any other pistol caliber unless you get very lucky. It's not Hollywood...

REALLY? You've been over in the sand as a special forces operator and YOU KNOW what they've used? WOW. I had no idea you were Spec Op. I'm not. But I've got friends that are (I've even got to 'roll play' with them once). Couple of them are ARMORERS for the Spec Op community. While they can't go into details, they ALWAYS come back with great stories and some interesting pix as well. None of which I'd share here, because I KEEP MY WORD.

DT,

10mm is an awesome round. But it IS pretty heavy round coming out hot and nasty. Most people, after firing it, drop down to the .40 because it's pretty much the same round size wise, but LESS powder behind it.

But if you find 10mm ammo, it IS going to be a monster firing it. Most of the guns are heavy. They have to be to absorb the recoil. And were you to compare it against a full load .357 mag, probably somewhere between 1.5 - 2 times more felt recoil. But it IS an awesome round. It WILL do the job.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

You may be retired, but you're still as immature as a first grader. Since you chose to resort to name calling instead of having a discussion and addressing valid points, I'm not even going to reply to you anymore.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

CL,
WOW, like to dish it out and just can't take it.

TYPICAL.

What, no snappy repartee. No cutting wise cracks. Just folding your tent and running away.

Makes sense. You've been called on your BS and you run and hide. Pretty much what I expected you to do.

Just like S_G, when he MISTAKENLY SAID THIS THREAD WASN'T ABOUT 9mm, yet it is IN THE TITLE. He kinda folded his tent and went away also.

Everyone ELSE knows what you are. So do I.

Go run and play with the rest of the children. One day, you might actually get to sit at the big table with the rest of us adults who KNOW what we are talking about.

Until then, run along and play with all the rest of the children, sonny...

:111:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

:bear_rolleyes:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Oh, believe me, I can. And I could point out many more holes in your logic (or lack thereof). The difference is that I, unlike you, try to follow the forum rules and don't want to get banned for engaging you at your maturity level.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Whatever.

You have not done ANY of your own testing.

You don't OWN a chronograph, yet question my results.

You don't HAVE a degree in gunsmithing, nor have you been part of the really small community of folks that ARE the people who provide the rest of you WITH your firearms and your supplies to shoot.

Yet you consistently doubt what I say.

LIKE I CARE. I've said it before, I'll say it again.

EVERYONE HERE KNOWS WHAT YOU ARE AND WHAT KIND OF 'ISSUES' you have.

SUX TO BE YOU.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

....
.....just a thought.
If you are ever going silencer, then perhaps the 9mm would be a good choice.....
the acoustic signature from a silenced 9mm is less than from a larger caliber round.
....
just saying...

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

The SLOWER 9mm stuff will not break the sonic barrier, which is 761 mph.

The 900 fps = 613 mph. So you don't get the sonic 'crack' as the bullet exceeds the sound barrier. This would make a suppressed round ineffective, because even though it might suppress the majority of the sound from the expelled gasses from firing the round, the bullet itself will make a loud crack as it exceeds the speed of sound. Unless it enters the target PRIOR to exceeding the sound barrier.

ANY bullet that travels below approximately 1100 fps should not exceed the speed of sound, all things being equal.

Past 1200 fps (+P or faster 9mm ammunition) a suppressor will not help with that whole breaking the sound barrier thing.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

what's a suppressor?

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

A more accurate name for a "silencer".

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

So much to teach, so little time.

Try reading 'Silencer - History and Performance' by Alan C. Paulson.

#

At Amazon you can actually open this book and look at the index. You will notice that this books first chapter discusses 'Silencers, Society and Sound', which is eight pages.

The next FIVE CHAPTERS, for a total of 86 pages, a SUPPRESSOR is discussed. Including Chapter 6, which is 'Debunking Myths, Articles and Claims'. After this point in the book, Chapter 7 and beyond, the author continues to use the word Silencer. But ONLY after debunking the whole myth behind this word.

Silencer is a Hollywood myth. It's like calling a magazine a clip. Which is ALSO one of my pet peeves.

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...72#post1681372

Currently there are no 'SILENCERS' that completely eliminate the SOUND produced from firing a weapon. The device you are calling a SILENCER will SUPPRESS sound, but not silence it. At least, not yet. Though one day maybe.

But then you still have the operational sounds from the firearm being fired - bolt being moved back and forth, springs compressing and uncompressing, a round being stripped from the magazine and pushed into the chamber, etc. With the exception of a bolt action rifle with a suppressor on the end. You COULD fire it ONE TIME and not rotate the bolt and put another round in the chamber but the suppressor would NOT SILENCE the round being fired. And generally speaking, a rifle round WILL exceed the sound barrier.

I guess you've been watching way to much TV or movies where someone using a suppressor fires a round and no sound is made. SORRY, that's TV or movie magic. Not truth of sound suppressors.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

You dirty little troll, you.
:36_1_30:

:bear_wub:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Yeah I'm sure Iptuous knows better. Is it already time for the return of the silencer/suppressor and clip/magazine debates? Christmas must be just around the corner.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Yeah... wish we could get the name of this thread changed...


Somethin like "Stupid Questions and Condecending Answers Thread. -Come one come all whipping boys!!!"

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Good catch

I actually am learning some interesting thing is this dust up.

E-A

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

My memory isn't that short:
http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=209467

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Yeah, i thought our friend here got banned for calling James Fransisco a liar and some pretty nasty names in other completely unrelated threads right after that. he came back in pretty short order....

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Well, so here we are again. Iptuous is MISQUOTING things and making up his so called 'facts'.

I just reread that whole post during which a few things popped out at me and I must say that JF NEVER posted any pix of ANY guns he said he owns. Which makes everything he said about owning firearms suspect, not I. I routinely post firearms I own (or have owned over the years).

Given I have been a member of the gun culture going on 35 years and I've had my 'background' disected for a Top Secret clearance AND my background was checked BEFORE I entered gunsmithing school AND before I could graduate gunsmithing school, I'm on EVERYONE's list.

Like I said, a couple of things popped out at me and I forgot to mention a few things.

First, if you own a weapon that you HAD to have the ATF give you a certificate to own (suppressors and Class3 weapons come to mind) and you have NEVER been visited by the ATF to see if your paperwork is in order, then the ATF has LOST your paperwork. As they have basically lost over 25% of the the paperwork they approved over the past forty years or so, I highly recommend you get your ducks in a row (all your paperwork) and contact them. When they tell you that they don't have any record of that, you will be requested to send in copies for their files.

Just because THEY lost their copy of the paper does not mean you get a 'freebie'. BATF has been known to 'throw the book' at people who have all their paperwork in order and the BATF lost THEIR COPY. Their supposition is YOU FORGED THEIR PAPERWORK.

Yeah, yeah, I know, that's not what happened. Have all the righteous indignation you want from inside a FEDERAL PRISION. Let us all know how that works out for you if you fail to correct THEIR mistake. Because IT IS THEIR MISTAKE, not yours. But don't rub their nose into that very much because they absolutely have no sense of humor.

And you don't like the fact that I'm SHOUTING at you? TOUGH NUGGIES. Get a freakin life. Honestly.

I've had a hearing loss at conversational levels (I can hear highs and lows, just not the middle tones) since I was eighteen. Too much loud music, to many fired weapons without hearing protection and riding too many loud motorcycles.

So you don't like it? WHO CARES? You don't like me? WHO CARES. You don't believe what I said? WHO CARES? I sure don't. But I can back up everything I say and have many times on THIS FORUM. Too bad so few people who want to 'dump' on me refuse to do the same.

Walk a mile in my boots before you attempt to criticize me.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

I don't think your boots would fit me, buddy!
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k7...g?t=1240002346

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Hmmm....I guess they've lost ALL my paperwork for multiple items, since I've never had the honor of their presence for ~15 years. No, I don't plan to contact them in advance. I'll gladly (?) provide copies when needed, if ever needed in the future. As I've said before, that's why I keep copies of my Form 4's in a ziploc baggie inside my range bag - just in case I run into a nosy Nellie while using one of the items.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Any proof? Links to actual cases? Or are you just spreading more misinformation?

Really? Funny, because I have a number of stamps and have had them for years, and never have been visited (knock on wood). Maybe they lost my paperwork, but I highly doubt it. And if they did, so much better for me. Now, where does it say that it's my responsibility to help them keep track of their records? And if they do want to accuse me of forgery, they will have hard time proving it, because I have the original Form 4, with the original stamp on it and the signature of the agent who approved it, as well as the log book records at the transferring dealer.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Yeah, you're probably correct. I'm 6'1", 225 (most days, on bad days as little as 215). Size 11D's.

You have nothing that will compare to me. You NEVER post anything but negative stuff that you ONLY back up with posting from other internet sites.

Me? I just go out and get the knowledge, then use it. Then post the results here.

When a friend calls you and asks you to 'help my parents if I don't come back' as they load out to go on mission? When you get a call from a friend who is in absolute tears because his mom (half a world away) has collapsed with a brain aneurism and then shake him loose from his fear and give him commands to follow to get him home in 24 hours so he can see his mom (soldiers follow orders really well) and then have his mom literally make medical history by not only surviving the brain aneurism, but actually come out better than before she collapsed? When you've helped numerous friends with advice and money (never asking to be repaid) when asked? When you've been designated 'surrogate' dad (and my wife as mom) for a friend whose mom and dad had to move from Colorado to Texas and you step up and help with no request for anything from them?

That's who I AM. When you've walked in MY BOOTS, you get to criticize me. Until then you are just a keyboard cowboy.

Oh and you want pix of me? You got it.

Me on the back of a Sherman tank helping with maintenance. I know, I know, cover them 'chicken legs' up (my wifes name). But it was almost 100 degrees in the shade of this opened up barn. We were warned to wear something comfortable and cool.

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1240004281

I'm third from the right on the second (top) row at the St. Paddy's parade in 2008.

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1240004314

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Even thought I'm a Glock owner and lover and would love to buy another, I think the post above really is the best answer...

What works great to me, may suck to you and vise versa...

Get it in your hand and try it out...

I've found several weapons that I love the look and thought of, but when I gripped and or shouldered them and threw some rounds down range, I did not like them at all... I tried something else till I like it... Thats how I got on Glock...

Whatever you get, learn it well and be comfortable and confident with it... I don't think they are as useful if not..

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Alrighty. I finally bought me a 9mm.

I also got the Taurus PT 24/7 Pro but without the 2 tone. I got it all in black... I am really liking the ribber grippers. Forms nice to the hand. I haven't shot it yet but hope to maybe in 2 weeks.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Terrible choice.....:signs14:

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showp...60&postcount=5

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

JJ and me have both shared our Taurus experiences. I agree with his opinions on Taurus semiauto pistols and will never buy another, learned my lesson. I still have it, the gunstore I bought it from is pretty savvy and won't give me a fair trade-in value (they offered me $125 trade in on a new Springfield XD). I don't like it, but will keep it as a spare handgun. I wouldn't sell it to someone I know.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Sorry to hear you guys got a lemon. I will keep you updated with mine. I will be buying another sometime later in the Summer anyway to add to my very small collection. I was prepared for the negative comments on my decision from the current discussion so your replies are no shock to me.

:wink:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Congrats :applause_ on buying SOMETHING! Hope it works out well for you, even though EVERYBODY who is anybody knows that the mostest bestestest pistol is a Bryco .380. Second place would go to a Raven .25 .:sarc:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Cmon man, everybody who knows anything, has the Raven .25 ACP as the bestestever pistol. It's the choice of all pro liquor store robbers everywhere! :wink:

Good luck, mocha. Maybe you got a good one! :ok:

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Ravens & Brycos & Jennings are pretty good, but the most reliable, trustworthy, VALUABLE SHTF weapon is probably a RG revolver. Don'cha think? It shoots lead out the muzzle, and out the barrel/cylinder gap. Sort of like a dessert AND a floor wax {old Saturday Night Live skit} all rolled into one.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Well I have put about 200 rounds through my Taurus. At 21 feet I can blow out the red bulls eye. 9mm is nice but I am now looking for something with a little more kick. Probably won't buy anything new until next Spring but I am going to be keeping my eyes open.

Taurus is real nice. Haven't had any problems yet with it. Of course I am just breaking it in now with 200 rounds.

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Wallew -- why can't we exchange information and opinions AND like each other? I know almost nothing about guns, so I can't evaluate who in this thread does and does not know what they are talking about. But I know plenty about civility, and you really come across as rude, disrespectful, and overbearing. Of course everyone is going to bristle and respond poorly when you talk to them that way. If you just enjoy being arrogant and condescending, well, then I guess carry on. But if you happen to actually want to provide people with the valuable information and insight that you've got, why not try being a little more civil? Others will respond in kind, and we can have much more productive threads.

Dymaxion

Re: Thinking about buying a 9mm
 

Mocha...I would have gone with the S&W over the Taurus personally, Taurus's QC has been rather spotty the past few years, you either get a great gun or you get a lemon. If you do run into failures to feed try a different magazine first as this will cure the problem about 50% of the time.

I know there are some who say the 9mm either over penetrates or doesn't penetrate enough ( some say it does both at the same time...lol). Buy any of the quality JHP such as Corbon DPX (my favorite), Golden Saber, Federal +p, etc and you will be fine for SD purposes. Buy cheap Wolf for practice. Just make sure you shoot enough of your carry ammo to proof the gun with it and to make sure it shoots to point of aim.

I have been involved as an LEO instructor for 20 years, I have also been involved in the shooting of literally tons of ballistic gel (all prepared using FBI protocols) and the 9mm has always performed very well. The Corbon DPX for example, when shot through 4 layers of heavy denim averages 12.5 inches of penetration and expands to .72 caliber...every time. We even shot it through 2 layer of 16 gauge steel that were place 4 inches apart to simulate a car door and it went 11 inches and expanded to .62 caliber...and there were two little metal discs making their own wound tracks...lol.

All in all I think you did ok...hopefully you didn't get a "it's friday and I want to get outta here" gun and you don't have problems with it, if you do get it sent back and fixed. The caliber is very effective with correct projectile choice and prac tice ammo is easy enough to find online. Just remember only hits count and as Bill Jordan said "there are no second place winners in a gunfight"...practice, practice, practice.